Charlie, how'd we let this happen?

[Texas]

WARNING: I'm about to use what some would call adult language that I heard on the radio last night. I'll try and give ya'll plenty of room in case you don't want to read. (Don't say you weren't warned.)

[Texas]

Charlie, last night I met my Mom for dinner in a town you have to know somewhat well: Joplin, MO, on the border of both the Ozarks and Kansas.

I just dropped off my 12-year-old daughter so she could spend some time with Grandma while her Mom, brother and I clear the house and make way for a big garage sale. We'd listened to Christian radio on the way up, but on the way back down to Bentonville I took a detour to avoid massive traffic blockage due to road construction on Interstate 44. I drove west out of Joplin to Kansas (Galena, Riverton and Baxter Springs, pretty much hugging the border) then into Oklahoma through Miami and Fairland and back into Missouri to head south on U.S. 71 at Neosho down to B'ville.

The Christian station was fading in and out so I decided to "fish" on FM, and found an apparent "hard rock" (I don't know what they call that category now) station playing current tunes. I liked the song playing so I stuck with it.

As it was finished, I heard the station ID at the 11:00 pm break...it was a Joplin station. (Joplin is/was a pretty much conservative southwest Missouri community...certainly not New York or San Francisco.) They played a buffer (or whatever the term is now) announcing the program.

Here's what I heard:

[quote:41a0fdc577]

MALE VOICE 1: "You're in the rock and roll sex party."

(Squishing noises)

MALE VOICE 2: "Don't you owe it to your penis?"

[/quote:41a0fdc577]

:oops: I'm not kidding. This was on a [b:41a0fdc577]Joplin, Missouri[/b:41a0fdc577] station.

If this had occured even in the LAST year (1982) of the CBSRMT on a southwest Missouri station (and I worked in radio the year before in Springfield) from what I knew the announcer who would have said something like that would have been canned 15 seconds after it was verified.

In fact, there used to be quaint things called X-rated movie theatres where you could go to hear things like that.

Now, we're hearing them on [b:41a0fdc577]commercial[/b:41a0fdc577] radio.

[Charlie]

Kurt,

That sort of stuff is becoming the norm in radio. I don't like it and I would not want to participate in something like that. I hear that kind of stuff too though.

A couple of examples:

We air our programming locally from 5 AM until 9 PM. All programming originates from our studios. At 9 PM each night we go to satellite programming from one of the big national networks. That transition is pretty much seamless. Their music format is like ours and all the casual listener would notice is no more local time/temp checks and such - and in reality, most people don't catch on and still think it is local. The announcer they have on overnight through the week says all kinds of things that we could never get away with personally. He doesn't go quite as far as what you just mentioned but he does say things (trying to be funny) that we would never say locally. Actually, he can be pretty funny but there have been times that he crossed the line. I have e-mailed him personally and told him that some of it goes too far but most places like that sort of thing I guess. One time he got his facts crossed up when making fun of the Catholic sex-abuse scandal and I e-mailed him and told him that he was wrong on some of what he said and distasteful on the rest. I think that regardless of how anyone feels about that, making fun of kids who have been sexually abused is not a good thing to do. He wrote back and apologized for that but his line of entertainment is still on the edge. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of folks want. I have had quite a few people ask me "who he is" thinking that he is local and others have even suggested that we should "take him off nights and put him on in the morning." (I'm on in the morning :( )

Second example: Each morning at 6:30 following the local news, we air a "comedy clip." These are one minute comedy bits following by one minute of network commercials. It is produced by one of the largest national radio networks and comes to me on a CD with 2 weeks worth of programs on each CD. I have to pre-listen to these to make sure that the daily program is "airworthy." Around 50% of these comedy bits are not something that I would put on the air. I mean stuff like what you mentioned - stuff that is way over the edge. That includes sexual comedy as well as profanities of the variety not heard on over-the-air broadcasts (until now). I have to hold back CD's from the past in case the 20 programs on the CD do not produce the 10 that I need for a 2 week period. So, that means a lot of stations are airing this stuff.

I have been to Joplin, MO many times and listened to broadcasts from that town. I suspect that you were probably listening to network programming but you might know that is was locally produced. A lot of the network programming is pushing the edge to try and get at young people who talk like "The Osbornes." (I've never seen that program but I understand that all kinds of profanities are the norm and I regularly hear teenagers in public saying every swear word I've ever heard all in one sentence.)

Bottom line - get used to it. I don't like stuff like that either because it insults people of thought and plays to the lowest element but it isn't going to change. Give it another 10 years and I'm sure that it will be much worse.

Charlie

[NDTim]

Hi gang

I was looking over the last post and it simply amazes me what our society has come to. I am not a holier than thou person - but just look at the values inherited in the system.

Case in point. We have a radio station here in South Bend that plays all the "crap" top 40 junk. Eminem, Shaggy, whoever. and right now as we speak, they are promoting a "roof sit" for 1 week to bring awareness to child abuse.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG -Bring awareness of child abuse I applaud those efforts, but then next week don't put the crap back on the air where eminmen is talking about shooting people or beating his old lady or Kid Rock and Cheryl Crowe talking about fueling up and cocaine and whiskey.

Sorry everyone. I just stepped off of my soapbox and am going to calm myself down and listen to a RMT episode with my son.

Have a great day

tim

[Lagavulin]

I have been teaching middle years kids for 12 years and see how much has changed in terms of perceived acceptability. I teach a media awareness class where we examine stereotypes, violence, language, and ethics in music, movies, television, news media, advertising, the internet, and video games. While kids believe they are immune to influence and set their own direction, many recognize that they're just being strung along by media moguls after looking critically at the issues.

Does that change their behaviour? Make them listen/view different things?

No.

But if they can be aware of what they are consuming, and why they are consuming it, then they're further ahead. The phrase I use is 'being critical consumers of the media.'

I don't believe it is the decline of civilization as we know it. In the end, it will do nothing more than create everyday acceptance of profanity, in which case it will become meaningless and lose its' shock value. Perhaps not a bad thing? :wink:

The larger issue is one of respect. When people feel free to use degrading and abusive terms to others, there is an inherent lack of respect for their own image, and for the damage inflicted on the recipient.

When all is said and done, kids want to grow and thrive as much as anyone else, and shock culture has always been around (Frank Zappa and the Sex Pistols in my day, The Beatles in my parents, and those raunchy swing musicians in the lurid dance halls who created what is now classic Big Band)

So... teach critical consumerism, teach social responsibility, and teach respect. Best way to teach is through example smile.gif

cheer up, peeps, it ain't the end o' the world!

miles

[Texas]

Lagavulin, not trying to discredit what you said but:

- Back in their day, I don't think the Beatles used the "f" or "s" words in their songs and if they did it didn't make it into the afternoon rotation, as it did in a Van Halen song I heard on an Atlanta radio station around 6:00 PM back in the mid-90s.

- I think one of the most controversial songs toward women the Beatles ever sung was a John Lennon (?) piece called "Run for your life" (http://beatle-city.merseyworld.com/lyrics/lyrics/rubber/run-album.htm). (And it seems that the song only caused a stink among some feminist group a few years ago, but perhaps someone can correct me on that.) Very true that the Beatles did indeed cause consternation among some in the older generation at the time with their moptop haircuts and such, but remember that their 1964 heydey also saw them dress in (albeit mod) coat and tie, and that their big songs included such shockers as "Love me do", "P.S.I love you" and "I want to hold your hand".

Fast forward to 1997, when I was in Shreveport on business and listened to a black-orientated station then. They played a Kelly Price ballad, remade that year from a 1986 song, called "As we lay" (http://www.purelyrics.com/index.php?lyrics=zcdychhk). Adultery's broken up some families before and it's not really something to celebrate, but the melody and the singer's rendition of it were pretty enough.

Unfortunately, they were preceded by a diatribe by a male "singer" or "rapper" or something who pretty much said: "You f***** b****, #@$#$#$." I'm sure this so-called man, like many of your kids, had heard more than his share of such words. Unfortunately, when you're immature there is still "shock value" in such utterings (especially if you can make $$$ off of them in commercial airplay), and he chose to use them. He, too, had an example - he was continuing a trend that began when Cheryl Pepsii Riley sang "Thanks for my child" (http://www.lyricsxp.com/lyrics/t/thanks_for_my_child_cheryl_pepsii_riley.html) around 1987, and 2 Live Crew or some such group at the time issued a similarly barbed song-retort.

And the Shreveport station chose to play the stupid thing...as I recall this was in the mid-evening hours.

I don't think this is the end of the world at all, but I do think it's an indication of a further coarsening of our culture. And (while admittedly it would most likely go over their head) I hate to see this stuff pollute such places as Atlanta, Shreveport and Joplin, especially when they're on a venue where any 4-year-old could switch on a radio and hear them.

[vgarci]

Ok, I'm going to wade in on this one because I've got teenage daughters. A few months ago I learned that my daughters were purchasing eminem cd's and listening to them when I wasn't around. When I learned about it, I confronted them to see what they thought. I was told that I shouldn't get excited but that eminem "was the poet of their generation"....they got this line from a freind. I was apalled and asked them to come over to the computer where we could look at his lyrics. After reading them, the girls became defensive and argued with me. Fast forward to two weeks ago. I'm pleased to say my daughters have both ELECTED to get rid of their eminem cd's. I didn't harp on them but they've learned additional things about him that turn their stomaches. Anyway, my kids are now eating up the CBSRMT programs (my oldest goes through about 5 shows every weekday because she can listen while doing data entry for her employer) so they actually enjoy the more gentle times we grew up with.

[Lagavulin]

[b:f7adaf1201]Frontline Documentary, "The Merchants of Cool"[/b:f7adaf1201]
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/
view online - explores the world of market research, advertising and promoting product to teenagers. I use this with my students and usually goes over well, though it is a bit over their heads - they're not always ready to admit that they are pawns of the marketing machine.


[b:f7adaf1201]Impact of Music Lyrics and Music Videos on Children and Youth[/b:f7adaf1201]
http://www.aap.org/policy/01219.html
The American Association of Pediatricians policy statement on music lyrics and youth accompanied by a survey of research on the issue.
An interesting quote from the statement: "in one study only 30% of teenagers knew the lyrics to their favorite songs, and their comprehension varied greatly"

There is another documentary called "First Person Shooter" that documents a father's struggle with his son who does nothing but play violent video games. Raises good questions and discussion points with kids.

cheers
Miles

[NAtlantis]

Vince, My sister likes that group too. I think it is a case of not so much the music as the packaging was my impression. Many of these young girls find the man wild, rebellious, and hot... the poet of their generation is marketing himself in the tradion of so many rockers who have come before him. With the right pants the right moves and the right attitude. The times just dictate that the extent of his overt sexualityand shock will be more "in your face" than Elvis' hip. shaking back in the 50's.

Frankly however still rocking or not...I think it's awesome that your daughters are listening to radio shows like the CBS radio mystery theatre!

I, like so many of you listened to the CBSRMT and other shows (some. more in the OTR genre) all through high school, and I loved it. It is an experience that I enjoy looking back on, and now reliving as an adult.

Life is full of flavor. The girls' music, such as it is... is one thing, not the only thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they still have some weakness for it or something like it. The fact that you have got them listening to theses classics however indicates that you have children with open minds and depth who clearly respect there father, and share a willingness to experience the both the present and the past.

Maybe it's just that more folks aren't giving the youth today the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate the benefits of the things that have come before them.

I find that my exposure to old television, radio, movies, music and literature has afforded me a common bond to people older than me as I have moved through my youth into early middle age.

I guess we can only hope that outlets like this website, and a very few radio stations out there, continue to share some of these precious jewels of the past in the present and future.

Best regards,

NAtlantis, John in Charleston, SC

[b:0b4fc38457]Long live the Theatre of the mind! = )[/b:0b4fc38457]

[vgarci]

John,
Well said! Great perspective and a fine piece of writing! :096:

[Texas]

I think every generation probably has those who are alarmed at directions their culture is taking. And I'm aware that such directions are cyclical.

That's why having just moved from Atlanta (which used to be a conservative city but whose "Covers Dixie like the dew" newspaper isn't really that way that this point in time) I'm taking with a grain of salt the fact that one can now seek out couples (m/m, m/f or f/f) who are seeking other m/m, m/f or f/f couples (http://personals.ajc.com/) within the confines of the [i:65bda7822d]Atlanta Journal-Constitution's[/i:65bda7822d] web site.

Now if the [i:65bda7822d]Joplin (MO.) Globe[/i:65bda7822d] starts publishing stuff like this...

[Ross]

I agree with Charlie here. Get used to it and focus energy somewhere else. Odds are things aren't going to change a whole lot.

- Ross

[vgarci]

Ross,
Great to see you!!!

[Texas]

Ross,

May I respectfully disagree with you.

I don't have to fixate on this...indeed, I do have many better things to do. I sure don't have to listen to the station if I don't want to...thank God for the power of free choice. Quite frankly, I'm very happy for freedom of the press, and free speech.

But I don't have to sit there and just accept or [i:b22692aff7]like[/i:b22692aff7] it, either. And if given the chance to say "this isn't right", I hope I have the courage to do just that whenever a time comes on something like this. (And please don't think that I believe I'm better than anyone else...I'm a recovering addict who did his level best to f*** up his and some other people's lives in the process.)

[Charlie]

[quote:a72c9db53d="Ross"]I agree with Charlie here. Get used to it and focus energy somewhere else. Odds are things aren't going to change a whole lot.

- Ross[/quote:a72c9db53d]

I'm not quite saying that I don't think. I am saying that I am opposed to the moral degredation of entertainment and I believe that as society becomes more gutteral that we digress rather than progress as people. I am saying that I think that there is little that we can do about it other than personally choosing to abstain from such fare.

Charlie

[Texas]

Wow. This song is at #16 on the pop charts:

**** it (I don't want you back - (WARNING: salty language and an annoying popup window or two) ( http://www.hugelyrics.com/lyrics/133358/Eamon/@#%$_It_(I_Don't_Want_You_Back)).

[wtmsr]

[quote:7f79f28ada="Charlie"]Kurt,

That sort of stuff is becoming the norm in radio. I don't like it and I would not want to participate in something like that. I hear that kind of stuff too though.

Bottom line - get used to it. I don't like stuff like that either because it insults people of thought and plays to the lowest element but it isn't going to change. Give it another 10 years and I'm sure that it will be much worse.

Charlie[/quote:7f79f28ada]

The reason that sort of stuff is becoming the norm in radio (and t.v.) is because the attitude of "get used to it" has been creeping into our society since the 50's.

If people would complain (to the FCC not the radio station) every time they hear something like that, we would not have to worry about what was being aired.

I have 4 kids. The oldest is 14, the youngest is 10. My wife and/or I pre-view all movies (except "G" rated ones) before they are allowed to watch them. We rarely go to the movie theatre because I don't like wasting time or money. I can't count the number of movies we have started watching and had to leave after only 15 minutes or so because of the language.

Any 13 year old that says some of the things I've heard in a PG-13 rated movie should have their mouth washed out with soap!

[chicagomilam]

I don't know if this makes any sense...

Here we go.

In these times, people and situations are very complex. That being said, alot of the programs you grew up with "Twlight Zone" or even "CBSRMT" may not be enough of what they are going through in their day to day lives. That being said, the programming of today is adjusted to the way people feel or the way people wish to see the world. Entertainers should have the right to write the music they wish to write, but at the same time they should emphazie that their are other singers more to your tastes.

Personally as a writer, the things I see aren't the things that I like, and so I write them as they are to show how messed up those situations are; be it a club, a strip mall, a strip club, anyplace. If you're kids will be impressioned by it, don't have them listen to it. If you are willing to take on the task of explaining why these things are displayed the way they are, then you might not have to police them so much.

I don't step into hot territory often, but when I do I usually regret. I will shut up on this issue.

[Charlie]

[quote:a88f345bc4="wtmsr"]The reason that sort of stuff is becoming the norm in radio (and t.v.) is because the attitude of "get used to it" has been creeping into our society since the 50's.

If people would complain (to the FCC not the radio station) every time they hear something like that, we would not have to worry about what was being aired.[/quote:a88f345bc4]

I don't say "get used to it" because I like it. I am just telling you that I can assure you that it will only get worse. Complaining to the FCC will get you nowhere unless you have a case where a radio announcer goes nuts on the air swearing, pulls some sort of stunt that goes too far, or something like that. Then, it has to be recorded, etc. We're talking complex here.

Just look at the stuff they say on television shows. I don't watch modern shows on TV so I am not familiar with [i:a88f345bc4]Friends[/i:a88f345bc4] or any of those popular programs. As I have said, I have never even seen [i:a88f345bc4]The Simpsons[/i:a88f345bc4] much less any of these other popular shows. But, the advertisements for them are enough to get the idea. It's obviously sex and sex jokes, etc.

Complaining to the FCC about any of that isn't going to get you anywhere under normal circumstances. In fact, it is so hard to contact the FCC that is nearly impossible to even interact with them! Believe me I know. I gave radio licensing exams for years and it was hard for me to even interact with their complicated web of confusion.

If society as a whole decided that they didn't want that stuff and complained then it would be different. But, we [b:a88f345bc4]know[/b:a88f345bc4] that is not going to happen, That is why I say, "get used to it."

Remember the uproar over that program on TV, [i:a88f345bc4]NYPD Blue[/i:a88f345bc4] when a lot of the affiliate stations refused to carry it based on content the first year or two? Then, the uproar died down and all the stations carried it. I've never seen it but that is what happens.

As a side note, remember the song [b:a88f345bc4]Timothy[/b:a88f345bc4] by [i:a88f345bc4]The Buoys[/i:a88f345bc4] from the early 1970's?

We play that all the time and it is a staple on oldies radio stations. The other day, it played and although I have heard the song hundreds of times, the lyrics never sank in.

Here they are: http://www.hugelyrics.com/lyrics/15810/The_Buoys/Timothy/

Charlie

[wtmsr]

Charlie,

After re-reading what I wrote, I have to apologize for sounding like I was admonishing you. I wasn't. I know this is a weak excuse but yesterday was kind of hectic.

My only point is I hear so many people complain about what they hear (or see) but they never take any actions to try and change it. Maybe going to the FCC would not work. What would happen if everyone who was offended boycotted not only the advertisers of the offending program but all of the advertisers for the radio station? If as many people who say they are offended took action, it would be a matter of dollars and sense. After the third or fourth sponsor removed their advertising, a station would not continue with the offending programming.

All of this is of course only my humble opinion.

[brian1984_2001]

I have not weighed in on this subject yet.

I must admit, I am horrible with profanity. I have been since I was a teenager. I throw the "F" word around routinely. My parents both used profanity routinely and growing up, all of my friends used foul language.

My wife would like me to stop, but she puts up with it.

When our executive management team meets at work, we all cuss horribly. We once had a concern about a potential hire because we were afraid we'd all have to clean up our language. We just learned to curtail it around her.

I should quit, but I don't worry too much about it. I quit drinking for my kids (not that I drank much, but I went out a lot), gave up marijuana for my wife when we started dating, (I was still a teenager) and gave up smoking cigarettes for the entire family. The only vices I have today are coffee and cussing. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs to cope with stress. I just cuss about it.

[vgarci]

Brian,
I have to laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Charlie]

[quote:921ea518a7="wtmsr"]Charlie,

After re-reading what I wrote, I have to apologize for sounding like I was admonishing you. I wasn't.[/quote:921ea518a7]

I knew that and I didn't take it that way. We are actually in agreement. smile.gif

[quote:921ea518a7="brian1984_2001"]I have not weighed in on this subject yet.

I must admit, I am horrible with profanity. I have been since I was a teenager. I throw the "F" word around routinely. My parents both used profanity routinely and growing up, all of my friends used foul language.

My wife would like me to stop, but she puts up with it.[/quote:921ea518a7]

I worked in nightclubs for 17 years and thought I had heard it all but when I moved to Maine... I have never heard swearing the way it is in Maine. The number one way to swear in Maine is to say [i:921ea518a7]Jesus[/i:921ea518a7] and that bothers me.

Furthermore, kids say it regularly and it isn't really considered swearing by most adults. It's unreal - I've never heard anything quite like it. You go into a business and ask for help and it's not uncommon for the conversation to be laced with such profanity. In the midwest where I came from, that would have been very uncommon. It has turned me off on a lot of people up here.

Charlie

[brian1984_2001]

Interestingly, as bad as I cuss, I seldom take use Lord's name in vain.

My profanity is generally secular.

[wtmsr]

There is a difference between vulgar, profane, and curse words.

Profane words are those words that a society generally does not use in everyday conversation. As times change, so do the profane words; i.e. 30 years ago, “ni--er” was a word that was used; now, it is referred to as the “N” word. 15-20 years ago, “qu--r” was a much used word. Once society started using it when describing a homosexual, it gained the status of profanity.

Vulgar words usually do not change. Words that are “vulgar” usually describe something unseen, either an action or body part. How many vulgar words are there for a nose or ear?

Curse words like vulgar words do not change. These words are taken from the scriptures and are normally used inappropriately.

I believe that a person’s speech tells a lot more about themselves than their appearance does. You have to wonder about people whose vocabulary is so limited that they have to use profanity.

O.K., I’ll get off the soapbox now. Next…

[brian1984_2001]

I don't think that using profanity indicates a limited vocabulary.

I'd put my vocabulary up against most.

[dave]

even before i was saved i knew i shouldn't use JESUS' or GOD'S name to cuss. i used plenty of vulgar words when i was around certain people. mostly my friends or if i wanted to give someine a certain impression of myself. a false impression i might add. i had a teacher who used to say cussing showed a lack of intelligence. for me it was laziness or for effect. i wrote songs with cuss words in them. not filled with them but strategically placed. any idea i conveyed using cuss words i could make clearer by using the correct words . sometimes i just didn't care. i had a bad attitude as a know-it-all youth.
i remember when the tv stations used to cut the sound out of a movie if someone said G D. they usually cut the damn out and left in the GOD. that seems backwards to me.
i work in a machine shop loading and unloading trucks. i hear nothing but cussing all day long. i used to be right in there with everyone else but now i don't and they see that and choose their words more carefully around me. i never tell them to stop. same with dirty jokes or the way they talk about women. even their own wives.
cussing seems to be the latest slang words. they do seem to lose their meaning. i hear some of my coworkers talk and i "think that actually made no sense what you just said".
the bar is forever getting lowered on tv and radio. i think we already have "soft porn" on network tv. money talks. the people who make money off these tv or radio shows have to start losing it before they change what they're doing. as long as it sells they'll keep making it.

i didn't know the fcc was still around. what do they do these days? i picture one guy sitting at his desk doing nothing and his phone never ringing for eight hours a day.
sometimes i get tired of hearing freedom of speach. your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. do i have a right to turn on the tv and not be offended? you can't yell fire in a thrater. i'd hate to go too far the other way to a government controlled media. i feel the news media is biased already. i try to teach my children to think for themselves and ground them in GOD'S word because i won't be around forever. i have to prepare them for the onslaught. the battle is not lost. don't dispair.

[Charlie]

[quote:c7d67b67fb="dave"]i didn't know the fcc was still around. what do they do these days? i picture one guy sitting at his desk doing nothing and his phone never ringing for eight hours a day.[/quote:c7d67b67fb]

Good words Dave. Thanks for taking the time to write them.

The FCC (http://www.fcc.gov/) is a huge Federal agency but I doubt if they concern themselves very much with regulating profanity on TV and radio.

Charlie

[Texas]

Isn't it interesting that CBS, the network which created our wonderful CBS RMT, is also responsible for last night's Super Bowl halftime entertainment (I didn't hear about the Justin Timberlake/Janet Jackson story until today, but my 10 year old son didn't seem to like that the one song "Hot in herre" by Nelly which was performed then...it's the one that says "it's gettin' hot in herre, so take off all your clothes").

Rush Limbaugh said on his program today that CBS was also the network on which Timberlake's ex Britney Spears shared a kiss with Madonna on the Grammy Awards.

I remember, among the memorable RMT Budweiser commercials, one which aired during "The return of the Moresbys" which featured a James Brown (more in style than vocal tone) soundalike singing "When you say Budddd..." Imagine if instead of airing that we'd have heard Ed McMahon talking with, er, a horse that farted, like the one in the Bud light ad just before halftime?

How times have changed...

[merfalen]

Looks like quite a few months have passed since the last post on this thread. Forgive me for being late.

I live in Southern California in the L.A. county area. I have heard some of the most insane things on various radio stations for years now. I have heard things that left me in absolute disbelief. My solution is I no longer listen to music on the radio. The music is pure garbage. I have no interest in it whatsoever. It is sad. I usually find myself listening to Christian broadcasts (107.9 FM) or talk radio on the AM dial. I understand what Charlie said about getting used to it. As a Christian I see exactly what is happening. I do agree whole heartedly that we should still voice our opinions about it. About how vile and insulting it is. There may be people out there that do not mind it one bit and there may be people out there that agree 100% with it. But I want those people to know that there are still those of us out here that do not agree with it. I do not feel we should give them free reign over what I see or hear. Yeah I do not listen to it but there are times when it is blasted in my face without having any say so. I want them to know that there are folks who still care about values and about wholesomeness. As long as I am alive and I have a voice I want people to know that perversion and filthy talk is not an ok thing to be played over the airwaves. Sorry for the length of this post. This is the end of my rant smile.gif

[Texas]

I've no problem, merf. I'm just glad there still seem to be folks who get upset by things like this (see: Owens, Terrell and Sheridan, Niccollette on [i:0ed436e8a2]Monday night football[/i:0ed436e8a2]).

I liked putting on the RMT for my kids and not having to worry about anything other than them getting goose bumps.

[Fizzlestix]

Excellent commentary, merf.

The "if you don't like it - change the channel!" option is a stupid, trained response-sig created by marketing pro's whose only intent is to saturate the market with this "ideal" and make it the societal norm of acceptance.

My personal celebrity nemesis has to be Paris Hilton. Why America tolerates this kind of manufactured, plastic abomination whose only role is to laugh in the faces of the have-nots, simply eludes me.

Your opinion is relevant and justified.

[Charlie]

I'm not saying "get used to it" with an inferred "get used to it and shut up."

Feel free to offer opposition. I am simply saying that they are going to keep doing it. You think they would learn ... everytime they put on some family friendly show or mini-series, ratings skyrocket but they are intent on garbage.

We don't watch it either. At my house we don;t watch any of the modern television programs. I'm a baseball-Green Acres-Beverly Hillbillies-Fox News-Food Network watcher. smile.gif

Charlie

[ahsv64]

[quote:946c58bded="Fizzlestix"]Excellent commentary, merf.

The "if you don't like it - change the channel!" option is a stupid, trained response-sig created by marketing pro's whose only intent is to saturate the market with this "ideal" and make it the societal norm of acceptance.

[/quote:946c58bded]

I respectively disagree. The "change the channel" is *not* stupid; rather, it's the only acceptible response assuming you enjoy living in a free capitalistic society where the market should decide what succeeds and doesn't succeed.

Now, if you long for government intervention in deciding what you'll have *me* watch, then fine. I, however, do not wish to live in such a society.

Because someone has such a prurient view of the human body that they are simply SHOCKED AND AGHAST at the sign of Sheridan's back, and also choose not to actively shield their kids from such *horrible, horrible* imagery, *I* am thus not allowed to view such material? Material that could have been shown on TV in the 60s? Material that would probably get a G rating?

This is getting ridiculous. Hell, it past "ridiculous" to "scary" when several stations wouldn't show "Saving Private Ryan" (though they had two previous years) out of fear of FCC retaliation. Yet some of you question the teeth of the FCC? Well, I guess they're good at making sure that we don't have to see that awful pornographic "Saving Private Ryan". Thank you, FCC and my local ABC affiliate for making sure that my daughter didn't hear "the F word". Lord knows I can't parent by myself... so I'm ever-so-glad that you and some people in "America's Heartland" made that decision for me.

I'm telling you, if CBSRMT was aired today some of you would actively complain to the FCC about some of the episodes' themes. Abortion, impotantcy, adultry... such things wouldn't get past the keen ears of a couple of people who have the FCC's phone number on speed dial.

And I wholeheartedly agree with the previous poster who mentioned that older generations had The Sex Pistols, The Beatles, Jazz, and Swing. EVERY FRIGGIN' GENERATION thinks the new generation has gone to hell in a hand basket. EVERY. To the person who tried to counter this argument with "well, The Beatles didn't say 'the F word' in their music".... yes? And? But for *their time* they were considered hedonistic deviats with long hair and who thought they were bigger than Jesus.

Alice Cooper killed chickens on stage, you know, in the Seventies while my parents' generation decried that my generation "Had no moral values" and that "society is doomed". Now Alice Cooper votes Republican.

I'd quote that French phrase about how the more things change, the more things stay the same (also in a Rush song 'Circumstances' in the late 70s... Rush was a tool of the Devil, you know... just witness that pentagram), but I'm guessing that the same people that think that this generation and this time period is the *only* generation and time period that has no morals don't think that highly of the French.

Okay, I feel better. Sorry for the rant. I must listen to all the Tammy Grimes episodes now for pennance. :wink:

[Texas]

Ahsv64, for the first time, I'm listening to 741023 "See Naples and die". Again [b:0c03ee247f]from the very first RMT season.[/b:0c03ee247f]

On that show I just heard a senator and his top aide go into a gay bar (it was identified as such) run by an effeminate-sounding, sinister (Jack Ruby-like?) proprietor who calls himself "Mother Rose".

Think [b:0c03ee247f]that[/b:0c03ee247f] would fly in today's politically correct climate? Or would we have had to have had it rewritten so the hero of the story himself was gay? (Remember, this episode was from October 1974.)

Indeed, the things you're talking about are true, and even no less of a conservative than Rush Limbaugh has said (as long as I've been listening to him) that each generation for hundreds if not thousands of years has thought theirs was seeing the worst of cultural decay.

But there's something different. The AOR (or I should say then "Top 40") stations which played his songs would say somthing like: "That was 'No more Mr. Nice Guy' (ending drum roll) by Alice Cooper." (A friend of mine used to have that on tape from KWTO-FM/Springfield when it played such stuff.)

The announcers [i:0c03ee247f]didn't[/i:0c03ee247f] say, however: "No more Mr. Nice Guy...don't you think you owe it to your penis?"

IMO, something has indeed changed over the past 30 years.

[ahsv64]

[quote:670868be56="Texas"]Ahsv64, for the first time, I'm listening to 741023 "See Naples and die". Again [b:670868be56]from the very first RMT season.[/b:670868be56]

On that show I just heard a senator and his top aide go into a gay bar (it was identified as such) run by an effeminate-sounding, sinister (Jack Ruby-like?) proprietor who calls himself "Mother Rose".
[/quote:670868be56]

And just last night I listened to 740125 "Speak Of The Devil", also from the very first season... hell, the very first month. The woman realizes she's 5-months pregnant, though she's only been married for a month. The doctor asks her if she's going to get an abortion.

You think *that* would fly in today's political correct climate? For, you see, "political correctness" works both ways. Hell no it wouldn't fly. Broadcasters are much too afraid to broach the abortion topic. If any character on TV even *thinks* about abortion, I know that the ep will end with the character finding out that indeed she's not pregnant... just to avoid the writer/program/broadcaster from making tough choices.

Yes, times have changed, but not necessarily in a "slouching towards Gomorrah" kind of manner that many tut-tut about.

[quote:670868be56="Texas"]Think [b:670868be56]that[/b:670868be56] would fly in today's politically correct climate? Or would we have had to have had it rewritten so the hero of the story himself was gay? (Remember, this episode was from October 1974.)
[/quote:670868be56]

You're speaking to the anti-choir, because I find nothing wrong with political correctness that is really just common human decency and politeness. Maybe if more TV shows, movies, and radio programs had depicted gays as human beings with human feelings and foibles they wouldn't be demonized as they are today, 30 friggin' years later.


[quote:670868be56="Texas"]But there's something different.[/quote:670868be56]

Sigh. But *every* generation thinks that, that there is "something different" this time.

In the 50s, Elvis' gyrating hips were "something different" from the sleazy swing era goings-on, and the rise of "junvenile delinquency" made the youth of the first part of the 20th Century look like angels. What's worse, movies such as "The Blackboard Jungle" and "The Wild One" glorified these deviants. What happened to the good moral values of Hollywood movies of old like "Gone With The Wind" or "Life With Father"?!

In the 60s songs like "Heroin" by VU and The Beatles were "something different" from Elvis' gyrating hips... for after all, at least Elvis didn't glorify drug use. And the movies!!! They showed partial nudity!!! At least the 50s movies had the decency to have their actors keep their clothes on!!

In the 70s Alice Cooper, Bowie, The Clash, Sex Pistols were "something different" because at least The Velvet Underground and The Beatles weren't messing with adrongeny and using outright profanity in their lyrics. At least it was still about the music in the 60s. And what happened to the movies? Look at that pornography that's "Taxi Driver", etc. At least in the 60s the nudity and violence at least attempted to be artful, and at least they weren't unpatriotic like "All The President's Men".

"something different" in the 90s.... Nudity on TV!!! At least that used to be only at the movies!!! And gangsta rap!!! Sure, music had been anti-authoritarian in the past, but this is SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Why can't they just wag their hips in a sexual manner while talking about LSD and dressing like an effiminate loser?

You may think the envelope is being pushed now, and you'd be right, but just remember that each and every generation pushes the envelope, and each and every generation thinks this *new* generation has taken it too far.

And each and every time they're wrong; something "worse" is ahead, and what's being done in the present isn't *really* that bad or that different from each and every generation going back several millennia.

Actually, I think it *might* be different this time, because I think this current crop of tut-tutters are actually succeeding in rolling back the clock, in convincing people that The End Times (at least culturally speaking) are upon us. To me, this is A Bad Thing, for a culture that isn't moving forward in all manners, to me, is a culture that is in decline. But also to me it's a Bad Thing because to me it bodes ill of what's in store for us from a civil rights point of view. I feel that some would gladly chip away at two and a half centuries' worth of progress in freedom in an attempt to return to a moral and cultural Eden that never really existed in the first time.

[Texas]

ahsv64, I listened to "Speak of the devil" recently, too, and doubt that it and its abortion topic would cause much more of a stir today than it did in '74.

Then again, maybe things are different.

I just heard of a study (and I think it was Netscape where I read it, and not from some Christian organization such as [i:ce08eb5286]Focus on the family[/i:ce08eb5286]) where a researcher watched nearly 1,000 hours of current, prime-time TV programming. His conclusion? That premarital sex, and rather the consequences of it, are frequently now being treated in a different way, showing far more [i:ce08eb5286]negative[/i:ce08eb5286] effects. For instance, in cases where the female initiated it, in around 50% of the programs watched there were negative consequences for her.

Back in the heady days of the RMT (the mid/late-70s, early 80s) most of the prime time TV programming I remember treated pre-marital sex as a good, always enjoyable thing.

So perhaps this stuff (even with the comments I heard on the Joplin, MO radio station I mentioned at the beginning of this thread) is all balancing out.

[Texas]

ahsv64, not trying to start anything, but if you want an RMT that [b:2161575da5]really[/b:2161575da5] deals with abortion, listen to 740529 - "The phantom lullaby" (also, obviously from 1974).

Instead of pondering the abortion of Satan's (or one of his demons') fetus, this deals with the effect on the father, the mother, the parents of the mother, etc.

I wonder what reaction this provoked in late May 1974? (I think one of the effects is that it may have helped propel the career of Elspeth Eric as a regular RMT playwright.)